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GM Bail-Out? - 11/10/2008 11:14:20 AM
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JMiller
Posts: 12
Joined: 6/9/2005
From: Tampa Bay Fla USA
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After stabbing the American taxpaying worker in the back in 05
by sending much of it's operations to India which hurts the
American worker, and the American economy, they now want same
American taxpaying worker to bail them out of hard times.
Moving to India is their right it is their company they can
do what they want with their company. But now they want the
American taxpayer to give them $50 Billion to tide them over
during these tough times, a mere three years later, they have
absolutely no right to this money, So I say, Read my lips
no new bail-outs.
I also say if they love being in India so much let the indian
government bail them out.
OBTW this move to India came on the heals of a big layoff
of GM American workers.
GM to raise India workforce by 30%
27 Nov 2005, 2350 hrs IST, Byas Anand
NEW DELHI: America's loss is turning out to be India's gain.
Within days of announcing 30,000 job-cuts in the US, automobile
giant General Motors
Corp will this week unveil plans to increase its workforce in
India by nearly 30%.
The carmaker has decided to add 450 jobs at its existing plant
in Halol (Gujarat) as part of plans to expand presence in India -
the emerging low-cost automobile hub in the east.
"GM is going on a hiring spree in India, and it's add jobs both
on the factory shop-floor as well in the executive cadre. GM will
this week start the process to hire 450 additional people for its
India venture," a senior head-hunter told The Times of India.
While it will increase its floor-worker force by 400, another 50
are being added in its executive cadre. "This is in line with the
company's plans to expand its presence in India, which GM feels will
drive future growth," the source said.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1309881.cms
Related
GM CEO Gets $4.6M Yearly Pension; Workers Get Pink
slips as General Motors slashes jobs, closes plants and
battles to avoid bankruptcy, the company’s CEO has set
up a retirement plan that will pay him at least $4.6 million a
year nearly twice his current salary.
Read full story here.
http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/11/28/102638.shtml
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O Lord GOD, remember me
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/10/2008 12:03:04 PM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
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GM Bailout: more socialism brought to you by the People's Marxist Republic of the United States.
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/10/2008 12:16:27 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1305
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
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The best thing that could happen to GM, and probably the only way to save them, is for them to go into bankruptcy and nullify all the idiotic labor agreements they went into in the past. No bailout money, no way.
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Give a hoot, eat yer Lute, Der's no risk in Lutefisk.
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/10/2008 12:17:36 PM
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redeemedsaint
Posts: 497
Joined: 12/5/2005
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Absolutely not! And they want to increase their workforce overseas? What about the hard working American, but I guess we no longer count.
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Get off the track cause the freight train is coming - Coach Bobby Lee Duke from Facing the Giants
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/10/2008 12:17:37 PM
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Miss Giggles
Posts: 4370
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: MI
Status: online
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Hmm, if they get rid of the unions then the dems lose a lot of their automatic votes.
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/10/2008 12:24:46 PM
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JMiller
Posts: 12
Joined: 6/9/2005
From: Tampa Bay Fla USA
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ekserekseez
quote:
GM Bailout: more socialism brought to you by the People's Marxist Republic of the United States.
Good point ekserekseez
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/10/2008 10:51:12 PM
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Lady_of_Faith
Posts: 81
Joined: 9/18/2008
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Maybe India already turned them down. 
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/11/2008 12:06:54 PM
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mavrick
Posts: 71
Joined: 6/20/2006
From: The Danger Zone
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More bailouts? Just say no.
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"Never Leave Your Wingman"
"In this world you will have trouble. But fear not; I have overcome the world."
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/11/2008 2:12:52 PM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
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quote:
Oh, and in case you were wondering, just a few short weeks after the hugest bailout in history, 87% of the US Congress incumbents were REELECTED.
So we've got that going for us....
Oh, but so many of them were good, conservative Republicans! How could we not re-elect them? After all, if you don't vote for a GOPer or a Dem, you're "throwing away your vote."
The fact that the American people elected a Congress full of Dems and RINOs is proof that this country is turning socialist.
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/11/2008 2:25:24 PM
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mavrick
Posts: 71
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From: The Danger Zone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ekserekseez
The fact that the American people elected a Congress full of Dems and RINOs is proof that this country is turning socialist.
To put it in the nicest way I can, you're assuming that people actually made informed decisions about their vote.
_____________________________
"Never Leave Your Wingman"
"In this world you will have trouble. But fear not; I have overcome the world."
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/11/2008 2:33:51 PM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
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quote:
To put it in the nicest way I can, you're assuming that people actually made informed decisions about their vote.
I don't think most Americans are capable of doing so anymore. They vote by party, racial, ethnic, or religious affiliation, rather than by whether the candidate while actually uphold the ideals of the Constitution.
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/11/2008 3:38:54 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2864
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
The best thing that could happen to GM, and probably the only way to save them, is for them to go into bankruptcy and nullify all the idiotic labor agreements they went into in the past. No bailout money, no way.
Right now, there is some fear that a chapter 11 bankruptcy may not be possible. Typically, that involves some form of debtor-in-possession financing for the company to keep operating while the reorganization is done. There isn't a bank in the world today that's capable of doing that right now.
If a chapter 11 filing isn't feasible, then the only recourse is a chapter 7 liquidation. The prospect of all the GM workers on the unemployment line right now is not something that I welcome. Add to that number all the people that rely on GM for jobs and all the ripple effects of a shut-down, and the prospect of a GM liquidation right now becomes downright scary.
Normally, there's a lender willing to step in to prevent that from happening when the company in question has legitimate prospects of being a viable company after reorganization.
As bad as this sounds, there may be no real alternative but for the government to step in as debtor-in-possession. The economic damage from a liquidation would be both large and unnecessary.
The downside is exactly what you wrote above - taking GM into bankruptcy with the government serving as debtor-in-possession probably isn't politically feasible. Imagine the uproar from the GM retirees when their pensions and medical benefits all go poof because the government would only step in AFTER they went BK.
That leaves the worst of all worlds - a bailed out GM that still has the post-retirement benefit monkey on its back.
Realistically, I think the cost of liquidating GM is too high. The political cost of taking GM through a chapter 11 filing is probably too high. That pretty much leaves a bailout as the only politically feasible option.
Distasteful but better than a complete liquidation.
How's that for depressing?
BT
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"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/11/2008 3:41:56 PM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
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Let them fold. There are people in this country who have money. They don't need to borrow it either. They understand how to work with one another with their wealth. Let them create a new company that does not have the retirees on their back dragging them down.
BTW, Donald Trump was on TV today saying you cannot borrow money. ROFL. Maybe "he can't" but that does not mean there are not lots of others who can and are.
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/11/2008 5:24:03 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2864
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
Let them fold.
Probably a bad solution in both the short and long run. Keep in mind GM has significant defense operations. Plus we all get hurt when a couple million people go unemployed.
Now, if a reorganization is actually possible without government funding, then I would agree with you. A complete liquidation though would do more harm than good in the long run.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/11/2008 5:33:27 PM
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crownlaurel
Posts: 65
Joined: 2/15/2007
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Where can I apply for my bailout? Do I have to be pals with Pelosi? I had a few medical emergencies in the family late this summer and went from being ahead on everything to being over a month behind. I want my bailout so I don't have to take on another job to catch up. I don't need billions, just a few thousand unless you want to give me my golden umbrella, then a couple million will do.
GM ignored calls for more affordable, more gas efficient vehicles in order to roll out gas guzzling status tanks even when the economy began to take a turn for the worst. I don't feel sorry for the company.
The only leverage we have for ending outsourcing jobs is to not buy from outsourcing companies but now we are just going to hand them our money anyway? Lovely.
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/11/2008 6:00:47 PM
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mavrick
Posts: 71
Joined: 6/20/2006
From: The Danger Zone
Status: offline
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No government bailouts. To anyone. Ever. Neither AIG nor GM should be bailed out. And just because AIG was bailed out doesn't mean the bailouting should continue. The madness must end, and like it or not, it will. The question isn't if, it's when, and prolonging the problem through continued government intervention only serves to deepen the hole we're going to have to climb out of as a nation, and turn what could be a year or two problem into a decade or more problem, and that's not taking into account the tidal wave of entitlement obligations headed our way.
A bailout from the government is not from the government - remember, the government doesn't create wealth, it takes it from those who do - us the taxpayers. The government is simply taking money from those wise that know the right way to generate wealth and transferring it to a business that has proven itself unable to do so.
Better to let those that understand how to generate wealth to use their capital to create new opportunities to generate new wealth, than to throw money at what appears to be an unprofitable venture.
If there are private entities that wish to purchase GM at a bargain basement price, then great. Until the government stops intervening, however, the private concerns will continue to sit at the sidelines, as is prudent, until things settle down and wise investors can make decisions about where to invest their capital.
If government wants to help, they can begin immediately de-regulating industries, slashing their spending, and reducing taxes. This would kickstart the economy.
< Message edited by mavrick -- 11/11/2008 7:11:00 PM >
_____________________________
"Never Leave Your Wingman"
"In this world you will have trouble. But fear not; I have overcome the world."
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/11/2008 6:29:38 PM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
Joined: 7/3/2008
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The number of posters here who favor bailouts of specific industries or companies proves my point: the US is turning socialist.
Yes, it is unfortunate to lose a job because the company folded. In a capitalist society, that's incentive to go get a job at a BETTER company that DIDN'T fold.
When my taxes are used to fund the bailout of GM or any other company, the government is stealing from me to give other people welfare.
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/11/2008 6:34:41 PM
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hoppersfan
Posts: 793
Joined: 6/27/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ekserekseez
Yes, it is unfortunate to lose a job because the company folded. In a capitalist society, that's incentive to go get a job at a BETTER company that DIDN'T fold.
That's a great theory. Unfortunately, those BETTER companies don't seem to exist anymore.
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/11/2008 6:37:50 PM
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Acts29
Posts: 373
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Only if they bring the jobs back over here.
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/11/2008 6:41:02 PM
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hoppersfan
Posts: 793
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
Only if they bring the jobs back over here.
I completely agree with you.
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/11/2008 7:15:42 PM
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mavrick
Posts: 71
Joined: 6/20/2006
From: The Danger Zone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
Only if they bring the jobs back over here.
Little bit of tail wagging the dog, eh?
_____________________________
"Never Leave Your Wingman"
"In this world you will have trouble. But fear not; I have overcome the world."
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/11/2008 7:20:09 PM
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mavrick
Posts: 71
Joined: 6/20/2006
From: The Danger Zone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hoppersfan
That's a great theory. Unfortunately, those BETTER companies don't seem to exist anymore.
you're kidding, correct? So there aren't any more profitable, better run companies in the USA?
_____________________________
"Never Leave Your Wingman"
"In this world you will have trouble. But fear not; I have overcome the world."
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RE: GM Bail-Out? - 11/11/2008 7:21:44 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 675
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
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So if we help them will they get better???
Why haven't they created something that will sell?
If we bail them out, are we sure that this won't happen again?
If we bail them out do all the people at the top lose their cushy jobs???
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I would much rather help people who work in the auto industry (including my husband) than AIG employees who are going to take their bailout bucks to some spa and spend a cool half a million!
