|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 11/28/2008 12:47:40 PM
|
|
|
Zhi
Posts: 1490
Joined: 7/31/2007
Status: online
|
I don't really want to get into a discussion on whether prophecy is a "real gift" today or not. It's just that I see discussion after discussion of various "prophets" here, and, at least in my mind, this ought to be REALLY SIMPLE.
The basic assumptions, as clearly spelled out in the Bible, regarding prophecies, is that either they come true, or they do not come true. If they do not come true (barring extenuating circumstances of God giving an "out", such as the entire country repenting as He asked them to do either explicitly or implicitly to avoid the threatened wrath, and even then the prophet generally states that that's what happened so the doom is not going to happen), EVERY SINGLE TIME, then the person is a false prophet. As such, they should never be listened to again, and they should be very, very glad that the Old Testament practice of stoning them to death to prevent them from doing further leading astray and making further prophecies, is no longer used.
So why are people not following this template? Are they not being taught this? I would hope that even the most non-charismatic, frozen-chosen churches would at least teach this principle as a doctrinal concept so that some of their congregants would not be led astray by a charlatan with an impressive personality. If you can find just ONE thing the person has prophesied that was proven incorrect, they're a false prophet. Period. No discussion necessary. This should not be difficult. Turn your back on them and don't believe anything else they say. Don't let them keep guessing on the off chance that they're right occasionally... that sort of thing is just a statistical necessity. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
People who do believe that prophecy is a gift given today should be in absolute TERROR of being gifted with and using it, because of the great responsibilities and obvious litmus test involved. Not running around claiming to be prophets, "teaching" people to be prophets, and apparently not being terribly concerned if what they're saying is actually going to come true or not. Why don't they take a lesson from the men God called in the OT like Gideon, who made really, really super-sure that God was really talking to them before they would forward God's message (and even then did so with fear and trembling)?
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 11/28/2008 12:55:47 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6353
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
So why are people not following this template? Are they not being taught this?
Many are being taught (by those making money off the very same claim) that a modern day "Prophet" does not need have an absolute 100% correct prophecy track record.
Hoodwinked... bamboozled... conned... and they have no one to blame but themselves because we have the complete Word of God.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 11/28/2008 1:23:26 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5735
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
So why are people not following this template? Are they not being taught this?
Many are being taught (by those making money off the very same claim) that a modern day "Prophet" does not need have an absolute 100% correct prophecy track record.
Hoodwinked... bamboozled... conned... and they have no one to blame but themselves because we have the complete Word of God.
I agree earthless, that is part of the same crowd that teaches one does not have to be found without spot or Wrinkle upon God's retur.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 11/28/2008 2:37:36 PM
|
|
|
themoodyexperience
Posts: 1072
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
So why are people not following this template? Are they not being taught this?
Many are being taught (by those making money off the very same claim) that a modern day "Prophet" does not need have an absolute 100% correct prophecy track record.
Hoodwinked... bamboozled... conned... and they have no one to blame but themselves because we have the complete Word of God.
This less than 100% accuracy thing is just an out these snake oil salesman have built for themselves to give themselves 'credibility' for when their failed prophecies don't come true. How can they keep selling books and anointing oil when their credibility is shot?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 11/28/2008 2:53:17 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6353
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
So why are people not following this template? Are they not being taught this?
Many are being taught (by those making money off the very same claim) that a modern day "Prophet" does not need have an absolute 100% correct prophecy track record.
Hoodwinked... bamboozled... conned... and they have no one to blame but themselves because we have the complete Word of God.
This less than 100% accuracy thing is just an out these snake oil salesman have built for themselves to give themselves 'credibility' for when their failed prophecies don't come true. How can they keep selling books and anointing oil when their credibility is shot?
The same way someone in the JW thread just now posted that Jesus can indeed be regarded as Satan's spiritual brother.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 11/28/2008 4:23:45 PM
|
|
|
Grace-N-Mercy
Posts: 6044
Joined: 5/2/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
So why are people not following this template? Are they not being taught this?
Simply because they're being deceived by the great deceiver. If they read the Bible, really studied it, they would not be led astray because the Bible is very clear about who is a false prophet.
_____________________________
<-- When did Hollywood go from classy to 'cheap & easy'?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 11/28/2008 6:07:57 PM
|
|
|
themoodyexperience
Posts: 1072
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
The same way someone in the JW thread just now posted that Jesus can indeed be regarded as Satan's spiritual brother.
It always astounds me what today's church does in the name of being relevant. How we have embraced and tolerated and in some cases even assimilated aspects of vile cults and religions or forsaken our first love for the almighty dollar. Testing these spirits is looked upon as archaic and judgmental and the embrace of such is looked upon as visionary and prophetic. Where will it end?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 11/28/2008 11:12:59 PM
|
|
|
lw9
Posts: 1129
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
themoodyexperience: Testing these spirits is looked upon as archaic and judgmental and the embrace of such is looked upon as visionary and prophetic. Where will it end?
With the delusion being openly embraced and welcomed, I can only see this trend ending with the glorious Second Coming.
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 11/29/2008 11:04:42 AM
|
|
|
Kat_D
Posts: 3033
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
So why are people not following this template?
To put it bluntly, there is one thing these so called "prophets" know for sure and that is (as Barnum once said), "There's a sucker born every minute." These false "prophets" bank on it.
There will always be those who desire heaven on earth experiences so badly that they will ignore everything the Bible says and jump on any crazy bandwagon that feeds that desire. Cases in point: Holy Laughter Movement, Lakeland Outpouring, etc. They are more than willing to exchange the Truth for the lie in order to have the experience.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 11/29/2008 11:27:53 AM
|
|
|
themoodyexperience
Posts: 1072
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
There will always be those who desire heaven on earth experiences so badly that they will ignore everything the Bible says and jump on any crazy bandwagon that feeds that desire. Cases in point: Holy Laughter Movement, Lakeland Outpouring, etc. They are more than willing to exchange the Truth for the lie in order to have the experience.
Well said.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 11/29/2008 8:54:09 PM
|
|
|
OleFitzHi
Posts: 115
Joined: 6/26/2006
Status: offline
|
Deceived they may be. Gullible they may be. Also don't discount the poweful effects of group dynamics. If EVERYONE in your church buys into a teaching, then it will be hard to resist for the individual. Even if that individual has questions or doubts, they usually go along figuring that if they are wrong then everyone else is too.
Having said that, I think that many who are deceived in this way are genuinely seeking God and that God often shows up in their lives, despite faulty doctrine and false teachers.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
I don't really want to get into a discussion on whether prophecy is a "real gift" today or not. It's just that I see discussion after discussion of various "prophets" here, and, at least in my mind, this ought to be REALLY SIMPLE.
The basic assumptions, as clearly spelled out in the Bible, regarding prophecies, is that either they come true, or they do not come true. If they do not come true (barring extenuating circumstances of God giving an "out", such as the entire country repenting as He asked them to do either explicitly or implicitly to avoid the threatened wrath, and even then the prophet generally states that that's what happened so the doom is not going to happen), EVERY SINGLE TIME, then the person is a false prophet. As such, they should never be listened to again, and they should be very, very glad that the Old Testament practice of stoning them to death to prevent them from doing further leading astray and making further prophecies, is no longer used.
So why are people not following this template? Are they not being taught this? I would hope that even the most non-charismatic, frozen-chosen churches would at least teach this principle as a doctrinal concept so that some of their congregants would not be led astray by a charlatan with an impressive personality. If you can find just ONE thing the person has prophesied that was proven incorrect, they're a false prophet. Period. No discussion necessary. This should not be difficult. Turn your back on them and don't believe anything else they say. Don't let them keep guessing on the off chance that they're right occasionally... that sort of thing is just a statistical necessity. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
People who do believe that prophecy is a gift given today should be in absolute TERROR of being gifted with and using it, because of the great responsibilities and obvious litmus test involved. Not running around claiming to be prophets, "teaching" people to be prophets, and apparently not being terribly concerned if what they're saying is actually going to come true or not. Why don't they take a lesson from the men God called in the OT like Gideon, who made really, really super-sure that God was really talking to them before they would forward God's message (and even then did so with fear and trembling)?
< Message edited by OleFitzHi -- 11/29/2008 9:13:18 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 12/2/2008 2:10:13 PM
|
|
|
IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
|
if people have "itching ears" God will give them what they are looking for.
Also, I happened to visit a church two weeks ago, I thought they were generally ok,, but during the service they were charismatic,
they also had a bookstore filled with books by Spurgeon, Torrey, but also Miles Monroe and other TBN preachers.
and then i checked their website, which said the pastor was "a pioneeer in the word of faith church in the (city name).
These three signs told me this was not the right place for me. I then told a friend who is charamstic about it, and he wanted to try to discuss if it were possibly a good church, however, NO! those three things were fruit enough to know i need not be there, no matter how good other aspects of the church are.
I WILL NOT SETTLE FOR A FALSE CHURCH!
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 12/2/2008 3:10:26 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6353
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
Good for you!
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 12/7/2008 4:33:11 PM
|
|
|
His_will_i_am
Posts: 124
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline
|
Most people seem to forget that a true prophet of God was primarily a messenger for our Lord an intermediary who He used to deliver a message to people who weren't hearing Him or refusing to listen to Him, themselves. It's sad that so many today focus on the word of knowledge or word of wisdom dynamic when this is in fact a small part of a prophets call. But in much of the 'charismatic' section of the Body, it's all that seems to be focused on or wanted. This turns people into psychics and practioners of divination, not prophets. The vast majority of prophets in the Scriptures were sent with messages which people didn't want to hear. Seems like what the advesary has done is trick a portion of God's people inot not wanting anything to do with the idea of a prophet and the other only to look for a corrupt version of a prophet, while neither side actually wants a true prophet, though it would actually be a blessing for God to send one.
_____________________________
And he will restore the understanding of the ancestors to their descendants and turn the hearts of the descendants back to their ancestors lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 12/7/2008 4:45:04 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6353
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
Question: Why would we need a Prophet today when we have the complete/full Word of God?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 12/7/2008 5:30:39 PM
|
|
|
themoodyexperience
Posts: 1072
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Question: Why would we need a Prophet today when we have the complete/full Word of God?
for the self-importance and piggy bank of the 'prophet'.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 12/7/2008 10:02:22 PM
|
|
|
rlj
Posts: 2337
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
So why are people not following this template? Are they not being taught this?
You answered yourself. ; )
quote:
People who do believe that prophecy is a gift given today should be in absolute TERROR of being gifted with and using it,
Why should one be in terror of something the Apostle Paul calls a gift? (1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
To jump down to your conclusion:
quote:
Why don't they take a lesson from the men God called in the OT like Gideon, who made really, really super-sure that God was really talking to them before they would forward God's message (and even then did so with fear and trembling)?
For those I'm not sure anyone who has posted in this thread would believe them anyway. I know of 3 people who God has gifted with an abundant prophetic gift who do as you say. I'll give you a hint on who they aren't- they're no one you'd see on TBN, the Elijah List or any of the other fruitcake ministries.
quote:
Question: Why would we need a Prophet today when we have the complete/full Word of God?
As Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. Paul later on in that chapter writes to covet the gift of prophecy. Sounds pretty simple to me unless you can biblically find what passages in scripture that tell me to reject scripture and the litmus test for rejected scripture.
_____________________________
-Roger
I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 12/8/2008 12:36:57 AM
|
|
|
Zhi
Posts: 1490
Joined: 7/31/2007
Status: online
|
quote:
Why should one be in terror of something the Apostle Paul calls a gift? (1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
Why not? It's a very powerful thing, and we must be very, very careful not to use any of the gifts God has given us in a wrong way (such as for our own personal gain). We are instructed in Philippians 2:12 to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. How much moreso should we approach being used as a messenger of God with fear and trembling... if only to be absolutely certain that we have made a correct discernment of what God is asking of us...
quote:
For those I'm not sure anyone who has posted in this thread would believe them anyway. I know of 3 people who God has gifted with an abundant prophetic gift who do as you say. I'll give you a hint on who they aren't- they're no one you'd see on TBN, the Elijah List or any of the other fruitcake ministries.
I truly have no problem with someone having a prophetic gift. What I have trouble with are charlatans who obviously do not have a prophetic gift (as demonstrated by their hit-and-miss track record) but who claim they do, and plan to get rich off it. The fact that the people you know who are prophetically gifted aren't people you'd see self-promoting on TBN would quite frankly be the first indication to me that they may in fact be genuine and deserve consideration.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 12/8/2008 1:14:59 AM
|
|
|
Preludeian
Posts: 126
Joined: 5/19/2008
From: Portland Metro Oregon
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Question: Why would we need a Prophet today when we have the complete/full Word of God?
Not picking Earthy but you don't think maybe that God wants to draw people back to him considering the curren't wave of anti-christian movements sweeping the U.S.?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 12/8/2008 1:24:30 AM
|
|
|
rlj
Posts: 2337
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
I truly have no problem with someone having a prophetic gift. What I have trouble with are charlatans who obviously do not have a prophetic gift (as demonstrated by their hit-and-miss track record) but who claim they do, and plan to get rich off it. The fact that the people you know who are prophetically gifted aren't people you'd see self-promoting on TBN would quite frankly be the first indication to me that they may in fact be genuine and deserve consideration.
Ok, we're not that different then. ; )
quote:
Why not? It's a very powerful thing, and we must be very, very careful not to use any of the gifts God has given us in a wrong way (such as for our own personal gain). We are instructed in Philippians 2:12 to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. How much moreso should we approach being used as a messenger of God with fear and trembling... if only to be absolutely certain that we have made a correct discernment of what God is asking of us...
Fear and trembling is a little different than terror though.
I read a book by a man named Leon Price and he likened the gifts especially the gift of prophecy to fire. When used properly fire gives us light, keeps us warm and cooks our food. When misused destruction and death can follow. When using fire one can't be afraid of it but must respect it and use it the proper way. The same thing with water. Water gives us life but it can also end life when it is out of control. The same thing applies (perhaps even more importantly) when using the gifts of the Spirit of God.
I do however agree with you so much on the lack of accountability(I even agree with Earthless on this to a large degree) for those who profess to use the gift of prophecy by those who receive it. I'm not a one and done kind of person but it gets incredibly old when someone can come out and give a wrong word after a wrong word after a wrong word. When this happens either someone is incredibly immature in Christ, incredibly ignorant or incredibly arrogant and wants to seem important. What you have to say is either prophetic (meaning it's right) or it's not prophetic (meaning it's wrong). If it's not than just shut up and quit making yourself out to be something you aren't. (I wanted to add I am not talking about you Zhi but that comment is aimed at those who prophecy falsely)
_____________________________
-Roger
I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 12/8/2008 8:19:25 AM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6353
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
As Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. Paul later on in that chapter writes to covet the gift of prophecy. Sounds pretty simple to me unless you can biblically find what passages in scripture that tell me to reject scripture and the litmus test for rejected scripture.
Is the Apostle Paul speaking of prophecy as in the gift of preaching God's Word? Or is he speaking of the Office of Prophet?
Do you know the difference?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 12/8/2008 8:22:30 AM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6353
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Preludeian
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Question: Why would we need a Prophet today when we have the complete/full Word of God?
Not picking Earthy but you don't think maybe that God wants to draw people back to him considering the curren't wave of anti-christian movements sweeping the U.S.?
Read what Christians have gone through all throughout history. The times under Nero (the anti-Christ spoken of in the New Testament) etc.. Read about our brothers and sisters in Christ in countries were they are beheaded, raped, killed and tortured because of Jesus.
It makes our U.S. current climate seem like a polly anna cake walk.
Again, why do we need someone with the Office of Prophecy if we now, as opposed to those back then, have the complete/full Word of God?
Which perfect for instruction, rebuke, correction, guidance, etc.. We are not sitting here waiting to hear from God or wondering when He will speak to us - He has and continues to do so via His Word, the Bible.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 12/8/2008 4:00:32 PM
|
|
|
rlj
Posts: 2337
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Is the Apostle Paul speaking of prophecy as in the gift of preaching God's Word? Or is he speaking of the Office of Prophet?
He is speaking of the gift of prophecy which can include preaching. The title of the thread however is "Modern Day Prophets" but the OP goes into the gift of prophecy. One doesn't have to be a prophet to prophecy anymore than one has to be a Pastor or a teacher to teach something and I mean that entirely in a positive way.
The problem with the Office of the Prophet is it has changed from the OT and too few understand this. When the Covenant changed everything changed. The writer of Hebrews talks about the Priesthood changing because of the New Covenant. Christ for example wasn't of the tribe of Levi for example He was of the tribe of Judah. I don't think it's possible for any OT "Office" to have survived into the NT intact when they are two very very different convenants.
The main reason I believe this though is this From Ephesians 4 (NIV):
quote:
7 But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8 This is why it says:
"When he ascended on high,
he led captives in his train
and gave gifts to men." 9 (What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12 to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
The order is what stands out - He ascended. Which I have always believed means when He ascended from the Cross. Then He gave us the "Ministry Gifts". So if we do a timeline where X is when Christ ascended by the Cross it would look like this and for politeness a lower case o for you cessasionists on when you believe those gifts ended:
Old Covenant (Including Prophet)-----------X New Covenant (Including Ministry Gifts which includes the gift of Prophet but also Teacher etc.)-o------------------------->
So no matter how one looks at it the New Testament Prophet and the Old Testament Prophet aren't the same. Prophets of the Old Testament for example were often in the presence of Kings and Rulers the New Testament ones were mentioned in the presence of the churches when mentioned at all. (Which is funny on how little the writers of the New Testament seemed to get hung up on who was the Pastor, the Prophet etc. and how they were more interested in advancing the Kingdom.)
So if you ask me what I think the office of the modern day prophet is since they aren't the same as the Old? It is one who has a unique gift of prophecy whose life and ministry with that gift stand out. So if someone is making a habit of giving false words and calling themselves a prophet and their gifts prophecying and others are calling them a prophet and saying they're prophecying then they are obviously wrong. They are fooling others and they are fooling themselves. It's the result of a combination of being immature, deceitful, arrogant, foolish, ignorant, DISHONEST and probably some more that I can't think of right now off the top of my head. They should be very very happy they are under the New Covenant and hopefully they repent of what they have said and ask forgiveness for those they have lied to. Fat chance of that though, huh? 
If you ask me what do I think makes a Pastor the first thing I would say is it has nothing to do with a sheepskin. It is someone who can teach, train, nurture and most importantly whose life is a living example of Christ. When one looks at one it should be obvious that from the way they live their life they are a Pastor. There are many with and without sheepskins who have no business calling themselves Pastor but definately a much lower percentage than those claiming to be prophets who really aren't.
_____________________________
-Roger
I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 12/9/2008 11:31:24 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4149
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: online
|
quote:
is he speaking of the Office of Prophet? quote:
The title of the thread however is "Modern Day Prophets" but the OP goes into the gift of prophecy. One can discredit the office if the underlying gift is to be considered false.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Modern day "prophets"... I don't get it. - 12/9/2008 2:08:04 PM
|
|
|
Zhi
Posts: 1490
Joined: 7/31/2007
Status: online
|
I'm trying to keep it simple.
If a person claims that God is telling them the future, but what they prophesy does not happen, and we know God is not a liar, then they are obviously liars. Debating about what the gift of prophecy or office of prophet is isn't really relevant.
Case in point, Pat Robertson. He said God told him that there would be a major terrorist attack (he thought nuclear) in the US at the end of 2007. There wasn't. God does not lie. Therefore Robinson lied (or was deceived, but, which of those it is is relatively inconsequential according to Deuteronomy 18:21-22)
I can come up with plenty of other examples relating to both Robinson and to so many other people who claim to be getting messages about the future from God (and keep my ministry to do so going by sending a check, money order, or calling in your credit card).
So why do people keep asking if they should be listened to on spiritual matters? The answer should be obvious. Why do people keep listening to him and sending him money? Why do they listen to any of the other charlatans that have similar "prophecy" track records?
Perhaps the most important question... why isn't the church speaking out against this, and telling Christians that they need to discern these things?
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
