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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/2/2008 11:06:12 AM
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Johnny_
Posts: 395
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From: California
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I voted for George W. Bush in 2000 & 2004. As a result, I bear some responsibility for the debacle that has taken place to our country over the past 8 years. It was utter nonsense. With that said, what happened in the past, stays in the past. We must now look to the future. As far as I'm concerned, Mr. Bush is a HAS BEEN. Now, I just hope Obama can turn this country around and do what is best for the American People.
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/2/2008 11:44:20 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10358
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Johnny_
I voted for George W. Bush in 2000 & 2004. As a result, I bear some responsibility for the debacle that has taken place to our country over the past 8 years. It was utter nonsense. With that said, what happened in the past, stays in the past. We must now look to the future. As far as I'm concerned, Mr. Bush is a HAS BEEN. Now, I just hope Obama can turn this country around and do what is best for the American People.
One must remember to learn from the past also...
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/3/2008 8:36:09 AM
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letusreason
Posts: 869
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
George W. Bush did not solve all the problems of the world's most troubled and dangerous region. But, for all his shortcomings, he has moved them forward and established the United States as the dominant agent for change in the Middle East. Consider the mess Obama would be inheriting in the region if the Bush administration had just sat on its thumbs-Ahmadinejad's Iran with an even further advanced nuclear arms program, an aging Saddam installing one of his psychopathic sons in power or Iraq being torn apart in a genocidal nightmare. Imagine all the regimes of the region, unchastened and unimpressed by the U.S. exercise of power, looking for any weakness or advantage to exploit and quite possibly finding it in al Qaeda and its affiliates.
Thank you, George W. Bush.
Iraq isn't already a genocidal nightmare?
Flight of Christians from Iraq is destabilizing the Middle East
Compared to what? The mass graves and murderous tyranny over the last 35 years? I haven't heard of that going on still but if you have a CNN article that states that just let me know k?
I noticed you took a Catholic opinion article (with hardly any detailed facts ) describing the plight of some Christians (in defence of Christians) in the country and tried to use it to support your (skewed) view of the over all state of the country.
Go ahead , just say it, you can do it, say we should have left Hussein in charge and stayed out, c'mon ,,,,just say it. It should be easy right?
_____________________________
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/3/2008 9:00:38 AM
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rlj
Posts: 2350
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
Compared to what? The mass graves and murderous tyranny over the last 35 years? I haven't heard of that going on still but if you have a CNN article that states that just let me know k?
Here is UPI:
quote:
BAQUBA, Iraq, Nov. 30 (UPI) -- Thirty-eight bodies have been recovered from a mass grave north of Baquba, Iraq, this weekend, officials said.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/30/38_bodies_found_in_Iraq_mass_grave/UPI-54211228075750/
Here is the Xinhua News Agency:
quote:
BAGHDAD, Nov. 30 (Xinhua) -- Iraqi security forces have found a mass grave containing 33 decomposed bodies in a village in the volatile province of Diyala, an Interior Ministry source said on Sunday.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-11/30/content_10434622.htm
Could you please be more specific when specifiying what news sources you'll accept? : )
I know you won't want to read about what is really happening to christians over there but I'll post it some more since you missed the last 50 or so links on it in the Iraq thread:
quote:
BAGHDAD — Christians in Mosul are fleeing their homes after a spate of killings this week that left 12 Christians dead in one of the largest Christian communities in Iraq.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/255/story/53808.html
quote:
Iraqi PM Nouri Maliki has vowed to protect Christians in Mosul after 1,000 police were deployed in the wake of sectarian attacks in the northern city.
Mosul's provincial governor said hundreds of Christian families had fled the city in the past week to seek refuge in outlying villages.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7665830.stm
Even Al-Jazeera is getting in on reporting the plight of Iraqi Christians:
quote:
Over a thousand Christians are said to have fled their homes in Mosul in recent days.
Ekmeleddin Ihasanoglul, who heads the OIC, said the violence in Mosul was "unprecedented in the history of Iraq" and called upon the Iraqi authorities to "prosecute the culprits who are behind these acts".
Ali al-Dabbagh, a government spokesman, said a cabinet-level delegation would soon be sent to Mosul.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/10/20081014153936955903.html
I'll let you do the honors of thanking Dubya for what he's done in Iraq on behalf of all of the ethnically cleansed christians in Iraq.
_____________________________
-Roger
I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/3/2008 8:47:28 PM
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schtumpy
Posts: 148
Joined: 12/2/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
Go ahead , just say it, you can do it, say we should have left Hussein in charge and stayed out, c'mon ,,,,just say it. It should be easy right?
Absolutely correct.
It is easy.
You charged in with lousy intelligence and no UN backing to take out a dictator.
One of how many dictators in the world?
And left about half a million (conservatively) Iraqi civilians dead at enormous economic - not to mention moral - cost.
Edited TOS 5
< Message edited by Kath -- 12/15/2008 6:17:46 PM >
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/4/2008 9:09:02 AM
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rlj
Posts: 2350
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
Go ahead , just say it, you can do it, say we should have left Hussein in charge and stayed out, c'mon ,,,,just say it. It should be easy right?
Yes I'll say it. I say it based on what Bush, Powell and Cheney had to say about it in 1991. However the administration war planners expected a pretty easy time of it this time to when Centcom gets ordered out immediately after the capitulation of Saddam Hussein. Now why if the planners expected this "long war" that everyone rants and raves we should have "expected" would the military leadership be ordered out of Iraq if this were the case? I know the answer to that! So that Bremer could totally screw up any and all initiatives that Sanchez and the armed forces wanted to accomplish by disbanding the Iraqi army and launching the De-Baathification process to put the country in total anarchy. : )
Anyway here is a slide from Centcom discussing the phases of the war and how there would be 270,000 troops at the time of capitulation to about 3 months afterward (which obviously they weren't since the administration would have had to impose a draft and they didn't want to inconvenience anyone with a war) and how within 2 years we would be drawing down to 25,000 troops and ultimately down to last the last 5,000 in 2006.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB214/Tab%20K%20-%20page%2010.pdf
Once again though allow me to apologize for playing armchair general using information and data I acquired from listening to Bush, Cheney and Powell.
_____________________________
-Roger
I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/5/2008 11:39:27 AM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/5/2008 11:48:27 AM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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ADMIN'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Stamper_Ben,
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Want to see my latest online project? Check out http://budurl.com/CWonFacebook
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/6/2008 10:04:38 AM
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letusreason
Posts: 869
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Again, I don't get comparing of the mole hill situaions (10s 100s)of what is happening in Iraq now post war to the mountain of evil (800000) that was going on there before hand.
Your article of people are killed in recent years , pales in comparison to the article I posted over the past 35 years. The goal is not to one-up someone in atrocity news but to apply perspective without rhetoric.
On Christians leaving Iraq:
This has been going on since 1987 when Iraq had 1.4 million Christians and then only 800,000 by 2003.
So you are saying Bush is responsible for the preceeding (majority) 16 years of Christian flight too??
While what has happened to that country in the past 35 years has been hurrendous to say the least, but to say Bush is at fault for Iraq's long history of ethnic cleansing and treatment of minorites and had no support of the UN while having a coalition of 34 countries who participated in this endeavor makes no sense to me.
There's more news out today about the transformation of prisons there into vocational centers of learning and even the UN security council has approved the trying of detainies to find out if they oppose any security risk before releasing them.
More stabilization to come.....
_____________________________
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/6/2008 12:43:59 PM
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Johnny_
Posts: 395
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINA: letusreason
Go ahead , just say it, you can do it, say we should have left Hussein in charge and stayed out, c'mon ,,,,just say it. It should be easy right?
I agree with schtumpy and rlj, we should of never invaded Iraq. The majority of the American people would agree with us. According to the recent CNN Gallop Poll, 64% of the American people oppose the Iraq War. With that said, we can't change the past, what's done is done. We must now move on and look forward to a bright future both in Iraq and in America.
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/6/2008 1:05:39 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2350
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
Again, I don't get comparing of the mole hill situaions (10s 100s)of what is happening in Iraq now post war to the mountain of evil (800000) that was going on there before hand.
Saddam didn't kill 800,000 at once he did it in groups of 10s, 100s and 1000s over a long period of time- 35 years or so. The numbers who have died since the invasion are over 100,000 from violent deaths. 100k in 5 years (though it has gone down in the last year) put us up to 700k over 35. The numbers aren't that far off.
quote:
While what has happened to that country in the past 35 years has been hurrendous to say the least, but to say Bush is at fault for Iraq's long history of ethnic cleansing and treatment of minorites and had no support of the UN while having a coalition of 34 countries who participated in this endeavor makes no sense to me.
No, I specifically referred to only the christians not the entire 35 years. I'm not that bad really. ; )
quote:
This has been going on since 1987 when Iraq had 1.4 million Christians and then only 800,000 by 2003.
So you are saying Bush is responsible for the preceeding (majority) 16 years of Christian flight too??
From 1987 to 2003 Iraq was involved in 2 wars and UN sanctions. The number of christians in 2003 I keep seeing as 1 million not 800k. Not a huge deal really.
Here is more on the Iraqi christians:
Christians now comprise less than 5 percent of the population of Iraq. In 1987 the Christian population of Iraq was 1.4 million; today, it is estimated to be between 600,000 and 800,000. The U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) reported that between October 2003 and March 2005, 36 percent of those fleeing Iraq for Syria were Christians. Untold numbers are now exiled in Jordan and Turkey where they live on the edge, most not allowed to work there nor receive social assistance. Christians in Iraq as elsewhere in the Middle East are the inconvenient minority. Even though indigenous, they are made to feel like the interloper. They are a vulnerable minority who are beingtargeted for violence.
http://www.csi-int.org/iraq_assyrian_demonstration.php
This article goes back to 2004 when the exodus started picking up steam:
quote:
In an article published Thursday in the on-line edition of 'National Review,' appealed to the Bush administration to create a ''safe haven'' within Iraq specifically for Iraq's estimated 800,000 Christians, or ''Chaldo-Assyrians'', 40,000 of whom are believed to have left the country since the U.S. invasion in the face of growing persecution.
Obviously no such zone ever materialized. Source here: http://www.christiansofiraq.com/protection.html
Anyway the number of christians who left from '87 to '03 is hardly comparable to those who left in the post Saddam era. The Iraqi government didn't drive them out and Saddam didn't allow them to be persecuted to the extent they are now. The incompetence over the first 4 years of the US led coalition went far to achieve this situation.
quote:
There's more news out today about the transformation of prisons there into vocational centers of learning and even the UN security council has approved the trying of detainies to find out if they oppose any security risk before releasing them.
More stabilization to come.....
Now that is news we can agree on so I highlighted it. I'm excited about the recent developments in Iraq. For those of us who want out we're going out and for those who wanted us to finish we're about finished. I didn't think we could do it because I didn't think Iraq was capable of doing it. I think they're going to be fine.
On the trying of detainees I am not against. Personnally and off the record I'm not against putting a bullet in the back of the head of most of them because I have no respect for those we are fighting when most of them aren't even Iraqi. Shhhhh though I don't want anyone to know that. :P
_____________________________
-Roger
I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/6/2008 1:11:11 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2350
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
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quote:
Go ahead , just say it, you can do it, say we should have left Hussein in charge and stayed out, c'mon ,,,,just say it. It should be easy right?
Yes we should have stayed out. Until such a time as 1)Afghanistan was won and 2)We had leadership who understood the cost, sacrifise and commitment needed to win in Iraq and who also understood the people and cultures of the region.
I'll leave it at that. I remember the first war clearly and I remember the reasons why Saddam was left in power the first being the international community didn't want him removed and the overall cost of occupation and setting up the new government because of the power vacuum that would ensue with his removal. Remember Saddam was the best buffer to Iran that ever existed. Is it any wonder with his removal Iran is so emboldened?
_____________________________
-Roger
I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/6/2008 1:42:31 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1511
Joined: 5/4/2005
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It is a sobering observation of the American public's grasp of the facts and understanding of history that George W. Bush, who unleashed a war of aggression which has led to hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths, the leveling of cities, opened the door to horrific sectarian violence, is nonetheless revered ostensibly for being a deliverer of freedom.
Bush's ignorance is matched by that of many who supported his bungled actions in Iraq, and on this website as well.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/8/2008 6:11:57 PM
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letusreason
Posts: 869
Joined: 8/30/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
It is a sobering observation of the American public's grasp of the facts and understanding of history that George W. Bush, who unleashed a war of aggression which has led to hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths, the leveling of cities, opened the door to horrific sectarian violence, is nonetheless revered ostensibly for being a deliverer of freedom.
Bush's ignorance is matched by that of many who supported his bungled actions in Iraq, and on this website as well.
"opened the door to sectarian violence" as if it wasn't there before.
give me a break.
Your blindness to the previous state sponsored violence is only matched by your bias towards Bush and your appathy to suffering abroad under dictatorships. Please don't pretend as if you are more knowledgable than Bush, the entire CIA, and security forces abroad. The more you criticize and cast blame the more you dishonor those who served bravely and sacrificed ultimately for the endevour you disagree with. You are quite brave here in your posturing and your aninomity, why not try it in a veterans hall there mister safe and warm civilian and then get back to us on how warmly those ignorant veterans treated you.
_____________________________
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/8/2008 6:17:36 PM
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letusreason
Posts: 869
Joined: 8/30/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
From 1987 to 2003 Iraq was involved in 2 wars and UN sanctions. The number of christians in 2003 I keep seeing as 1 million not 800k. Not a huge deal really.
Check the census reports.
Your repsonse is hollow in response to my charge of your mountain out of mole-hill making.
You keep missing the main point of the context of the over all time line.
Anybody can pick a arbitarary statistic in a moment of time to support their view. Wrangling the big picture is a little bit tougher.
Try not looking through a straw.
_____________________________
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/8/2008 8:41:54 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2350
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
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quote:
Try not looking through a straw.
Can't see the fact I'm made out of straw in the avatar? ; )
quote:
Check the census reports.
I'm asking in all honesty what census reports? Where did you find them? I'm getting 1.4 million in 1987, 1 million in 2003, and .6 to .8 million now. I'm not finding anything else. The numbers of those in places like Syria, Lebanon and Jordan are consistent with what papers have reported, governments have reported for those who have fled.
Usually you're not hard for me to understand even though we look at things so different. This time though I'm just not reading you.
_____________________________
-Roger
I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/9/2008 12:30:09 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1511
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
"opened the door to sectarian violence" as if it wasn't there before.
give me a break.
Was there ethnic cleansing going on before we invaded?
Were Sunnis and Shias sending out death squads whereby there would be corpses found in the morning, many of them, with horrific torture marks?
quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
Your blindness to the previous state sponsored violence
I’m not blind to it, but the facts state that Iraq became much more violent AFTER we went in. Iraq wasn’t Switzerland, but it wasn’t Nazi Germany or North Korea, and now it’s one of the world’s most failed states.
quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
is only matched by your bias towards Bush and your appathy to suffering abroad under dictatorships.
Bush has caused a lot of havoc in the region. Did you know that it is estimated one million Iraqis have died thanks to the violence caused by and after our invasion?
As for apathy to suffering under dictatorships: Iraqis were not “suffering.” There were those who were persecuted, but that was if they opposed Saddam. Iraqis were free to wear western clothing, to study, to own and to drive cars, to use computers. Iraqi women were free to wear jeans and to go to schools. Iraq, despite the sanctions, was a mechanized society. We made it worse.
And if apathy to suffering is so reprehensible, perhaps you’ll explain why Baath Iraq was a US ally in the 1980s? Was Saddam any less bad than he was on February 20, 2003?
quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
Please don't pretend as if you are more knowledgable than Bush
I knew there were Shia and Sunni. He didn’t.
quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
the entire CIA
How shrill.
quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
and security forces abroad.
A lot of soldiers in Iraq, God bless them, still believe SH was behind 9/11. Given even Bush admitted that wasn’t the case, and that I have always maintained so, I would say that at least regarding 9/11, I know a bit more than some of our brave troops.
quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
The more you criticize and cast blame the more you dishonor those who served bravely and sacrificed ultimately for the endevour you disagree with.
This kind of conflation – brave troops with Bush – is the dangerous thinking that has plagued the US in recent years. “With us or against us,” etc. Bush has been a divider, and I have never been intimidated by claims that to disagree with Bush was tantamount to treason. I’m not about to start during the final days of his disastrous presidency.
quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
You are quite brave here in your posturing and your aninomity, why not try it in a veterans hall there mister safe and warm civilian and then get back to us on how warmly those ignorant veterans treated you.
If I ever dealt with veterans, they’d hear me thank them for their service and I’d donate time; I’ve already donated money. But veterans are not automatically right in the grasp of the facts, regardless of how bravely they’ve served.
Iraq was not involved w/ 9/11.
Iraq had no collaborative partnership with Al-Qaeda.
Iraq had no WMDs, and no nuclear weapons.
Iraq was contained.
Iraq was a secular state, a buffer vs. Iran.
Saddam Hussein was an ideological enemy of Osama Bin Laden.
Iraq was never a place where Muslim terrorists could train let alone exist without Saddam’s forces persecuting them (except for the extreme north, see Ansar Al-Islam).
Bush is responsible for a quagmire which has destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives. Only the Iraqi people (4mm of 25mm of them are refugees) and US troops are paying the price, he’s going to his nice new house in Dallas.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/10/2008 12:12:17 PM
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letusreason
Posts: 869
Joined: 8/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
"opened the door to sectarian violence" as if it wasn't there before.
give me a break.
Was there ethnic cleansing going on before we invaded?
Were Sunnis and Shias sending out death squads whereby there would be corpses found in the morning, many of them, with horrific torture marks?
This first part is so assinine I'm not even reading the rest.
The gassing of the Kurds leaves the temporary birth pains of what you are mentioning of a newly formed democratic goverment totally pale in comparison a thousand times over.
182,000 times to be exact.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3320293.stm
You seem to have a viscious and deep seeded violent hatred towards Bush and your bias in this regards is the main propulsion of your words, and your communication style on this matter. I can fully appreciate some comments from his detractors as evidence of his lack of brilliance on several matters but yours is over the top to the point of lacking any kind of coherent sensibleness in the full context of the overall tradgedy in that country in the years before we (AND THE 34 OTHER NATIONS) got there.
I won't read your posts anymore for the afore mentioned reasons.
It's a waste of time as far as I am concerned.
_____________________________
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/10/2008 3:25:44 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1511
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
This first part is so assinine I'm not even reading the rest.
The gassing of the Kurds leaves the temporary birth pains of what you are mentioning of a newly formed democratic goverment totally pale in comparison a thousand times over.
182,000 times to be exact.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3320293.stm
You seem to have a viscious and deep seeded violent hatred towards Bush and your bias in this regards is the main propulsion of your words, and your communication style on this matter. I can fully appreciate some comments from his detractors as evidence of his lack of brilliance on several matters but yours is over the top to the point of lacking any kind of coherent sensibleness in the full context of the overall tradgedy in that country in the years before we (AND THE 34 OTHER NATIONS) got there.
I won't read your posts anymore for the afore mentioned reasons.
It's a waste of time as far as I am concerned.
You truly need to brush up on the facts - and you should start by learning what "ethnic cleansing" means.
As reprehensible as the gassing of Kurds was by the Baath, it was not sectarian violence insofar as it involved regular Iraqi citizens going at each other's throats. It was state oppression, top-down violence.
For someone whose nick is "letusreason," a lot of what you say is quite irrational.
As I offered to you before, I will debate Iraq with you at length and in depth in the Iraq war thread. But given the limited command of history and terminology you've demonstrated thus far, I speculate it'd be a pointless endeavor, all the more since you deceive yourself into believing you've refuted me when you don't even know what you're trying to refute.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Bush says government will make the banks all better - 12/26/2008 1:27:10 AM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 589
Joined: 1/18/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
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ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
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ORIGINAL: letusreason
George W. Bush did not solve all the problems of the world's most troubled and dangerous region. But, for all his shortcomings, he has moved them forward and established the United States as the dominant agent for change in the Middle East. Consider the mess Obama would be inheriting in the region if the Bush administration had just sat on its thumbs-Ahmadinejad's Iran with an even further advanced nuclear arms program, an aging Saddam installing one of his psychopathic sons in power or Iraq being torn apart in a genocidal nightmare. Imagine all the regimes of the region, unchastened and unimpressed by the U.S. exercise of power, looking for any weakness or advantage to exploit and quite possibly finding it in al Qaeda and its affiliates.
Thank you, George W. Bush.
Iraq isn't already a genocidal nightmare?
Flight of Christians from Iraq is destabilizing the Middle East
Compared to what? The mass graves and murderous tyranny over the last 35 years? I haven't heard of that going on still but if you have a CNN article that states that just let me know k?
I noticed you took a Catholic opinion article (with hardly any detailed facts ) describing the plight of some Christians (in defence of Christians) in the country and tried to use it to support your (skewed) view of the over all state of the country.
Go ahead , just say it, you can do it, say we should have left Hussein in charge and stayed out, c'mon ,,,,just say it. It should be easy right?
"Number one is the president has really failed to lay out before the American people the reasons why we need to be involved militarily. That's number one.
And then we go back to Henry Kissinger's test, which is number one, is there a vital U.S. national interest? And do we have a plan to disengage? What's the exit strategy? I don't see that we've met that test either. And why | | |
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Man, I should lay off him just for having to endure that! 
