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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/28/2008 7:59:16 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6348
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Sammy can correct me if I am wrong.. but if I recall correctly, his mother is Word of Faith and it seems his church has now full gone that way as well.
Sammy - I do not know if you have read a portion of my testimony that I shared in the Benny Hinn thread.. it sounds like you're going through what my family and I did some three years ago.
Let us know and God bless you.
Hey Earthless,thanks for your concern.I am not sure If I have read your testimony.I have read you writing about your situation with your family but I am not sure if that is what you mean.Can you ell me what page it was in the thread?
So sorry to hear about Word of Faith causing you so much trouble in your home/family. I will start praying for you brother.
HERE is the link to the portion of it.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/28/2008 8:22:40 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 512
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Sammy can correct me if I am wrong.. but if I recall correctly, his mother is Word of Faith and it seems his church has now full gone that way as well.
Sammy - I do not know if you have read a portion of my testimony that I shared in the Benny Hinn thread.. it sounds like you're going through what my family and I did some three years ago.
Let us know and God bless you.
Hey Earthless,thanks for your concern.I am not sure If I have read your testimony.I have read you writing about your situation with your family but I am not sure if that is what you mean.Can you ell me what page it was in the thread?
So sorry to hear about Word of Faith causing you so much trouble in your home/family. I will start praying for you brother.
HERE is the link to the portion of it.
Wow..I just read your testimony.May God continue to bless you.Thank you so much because it really encourages me to continue to seek after the truth in scripture.Also if you don't mind me asking,are you still a Pentecostal?It's not an important question and it doesn't require an answer if you do not want to answer but I ask because in my question everything I believed(with scripture) I became a reformed non-denominational Christian and no longer consider myself a pentecostal.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/29/2008 10:38:25 AM
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LBolt
Posts: 999
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
I don't believe the requirement is that you meet with a pastor against that pastors will, but that you clearly articulate your concerns as best you are able to do. Again, I understand that you cannot force others to listen, but I do think it is important to do what is within your control to lovingly address the issue. From what you describe, it sounds as if you did that. I would not call what you have described as silently leaving the church.
I understand what you are saying, but if someone is almost a charter member, I came 1 year after it's inception and been there for 12 years, a talk in my view is warrated. I left out alot of details. I, due to some business transactions that overlapped our scheduled meeting time, was unable to meet with the senior pastor. I understand that know one should not be forced to do anything against their freewill and that they are busy people.
They we other issues going on that I don't want to disclose, that led to our decision. It was like YAH was allowing circumstances to help push us out because of inability to let go. It was very painful but I caused alot of it by not leaving sooner. I share in my own heartache and pain...including others. I hate to see people hurt due to something that is not in their fault or doesn't pertain to them per se.
It's like when parents get divorced and children thinking it's their fault. That kind of pain.
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/29/2008 7:22:48 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3417
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
Hi Covaan,As Earthless mentioned they hold teach many of the "Word of faith" doctrine and Christ crucified wasn't/is not preached and on the rare occasion that they may teach about Gospel it would be full of many WOF teachings.I do have biblical proof that the WOF teachings are false and not to sound prideful but I don't think that I have been disrespectful to her about the situation.She was angry with me and told me that I would have to leave her house the minute i told her I was leaving.
She is trying to pressure me to go back to the church..I do hope that i don't sin against her but it's incredibly frustrating and I have been told that I am following Satan and that my favorite preachers are false teachers(John Macarthur,Paul Washer).
I don't know, Sammy. I may not have the best attitude or even the right attitude, and I have No Clue how old you are -- I am not good with ages. But bluntly, I was proud of my children when they started demonstrating differences of opinions with me. It showed that I had reared them not to be clones but to think for themselves. But of course, there were certain lines I would not allow to be crossed. You understand.
But sometimes, we parents need to hear what our children have to say, when they are old enough to have their own opinions, because we can get into such a habit of doing what we are doing that we don't think.
Also, Sammy, I reared my children in a cult. I was so adamant about that cult that they actually were part of what started my wake-up call about it. They were not disrespectful to me; they just told me what they were thinking. Thank G-d, we are ALL out of that cult now.
Bless you, Sammy. I am praying for you. And every time I see your photo, I will pray.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/29/2008 7:25:53 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3417
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
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Earthless --
I read part of your testimony but not all. Some of that just made me so angry! I am so sorry for what people must endure in their churches and glad you didn't swallow that stuff but got out. levitation. oh, brother. that's sick.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/29/2008 9:04:55 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 512
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
Hi Covaan,As Earthless mentioned they hold teach many of the "Word of faith" doctrine and Christ crucified wasn't/is not preached and on the rare occasion that they may teach about Gospel it would be full of many WOF teachings.I do have biblical proof that the WOF teachings are false and not to sound prideful but I don't think that I have been disrespectful to her about the situation.She was angry with me and told me that I would have to leave her house the minute i told her I was leaving.
She is trying to pressure me to go back to the church..I do hope that i don't sin against her but it's incredibly frustrating and I have been told that I am following Satan and that my favorite preachers are false teachers(John Macarthur,Paul Washer).
I don't know, Sammy. I may not have the best attitude or even the right attitude, and I have No Clue how old you are -- I am not good with ages. But bluntly, I was proud of my children when they started demonstrating differences of opinions with me. It showed that I had reared them not to be clones but to think for themselves. But of course, there were certain lines I would not allow to be crossed. You understand.
But sometimes, we parents need to hear what our children have to say, when they are old enough to have their own opinions, because we can get into such a habit of doing what we are doing that we don't think.
Also, Sammy, I reared my children in a cult. I was so adamant about that cult that they actually were part of what started my wake-up call about it. They were not disrespectful to me; they just told me what they were thinking. Thank G-d, we are ALL out of that cult now.
Bless you, Sammy. I am praying for you. And every time I see your photo, I will pray.
Thank you for sharing that Covaan. I am glad that in God's grace you and you children came to agree with one another.I also pray that just as your children were respectable to you,so will i with my mother.
Despite my problem I know that I have peace in that the Lord is my shepherd and when I am weak then I am strong(2Cor.12:10).
The passage:"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters - yes, even his own life - he cannot be my disciple." -- (Luke 14:26)
Has been a tremendous help for me though.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/29/2008 9:10:38 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3417
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
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Sammy, you are something else. Wow.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/29/2008 9:22:05 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 3629
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DrIjames
are you saying that you hate your parents? Do you think that is what this passage is implying, or is it telling us to count the cost, before we start on our journey. Maybe we are to put G=d first above our family's, I do know that He is a G-d of love and He said that if we honor our parents then we would live a LONG life. Jesus had to speak in parables allot because the enemy was using the so called religious leaders to entrap Him so that they may kill Him, but it was going to be in G-ds time not the rulers or the devils or the government
I have seen nothing in Sammy's post that would indicate that he took this out of context in the way you inferred.
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/29/2008 9:31:49 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 512
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DrIjames
are you saying that you hate your parents? Do you think that is what this passage is implying, or is it telling us to count the cost, before we start on our journey. Maybe we are to put G=d first above our family's, I do know that He is a G-d of love and He said that if we honor our parents then we would live a LONG life. Jesus had to speak in parables allot because the enemy was using the so called religious leaders to entrap Him so that they may kill Him, but it was going to be in G-ds time not the rulers or the devils or the government
I am not saying that the verse calls us to hate our parents but I believe that Christ was teaching that those who desire to follow him must be willing to lose their relationship with their family for him if it comes to that.Many believers have had to choose Christ over their families because their families strongly opposed of the Gospel.I believe that that's the point of the passage,it is similar to the passage where Christ says we must deny ourselves and pick up our cross.
Covaan_Meshuga
quote:
Sammy, you are something else. Wow.
lol..I am not sure if this is a compliment but if it is,at the risk of being cheesy "in me, that is in my flesh, dwells no good thing."
(Rom. 7:18a)
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/29/2008 9:33:17 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3417
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
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It's definitely a compliment. I can't help but love you, Sammy.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/29/2008 9:38:09 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 512
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
It's definitely a compliment. I can't help but love you, Sammy.
Thank you,and I do love you too(where's the violin?lol)..It's great to come to this forum and be encouraged by people like you.May God continue to bless you and all those who love Christ.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/29/2008 9:39:57 PM
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DrIjames
Posts: 44
Joined: 11/16/2008
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great. I am so glad. I have read his post and Sammy you seem like a person that is serious about your walk in the Lord. It is hard some times to read inflections and meanings when it is just type. I tell my church and use this scripture that there may come a time when you have to give up the dream you had of going camping , to do G-d's work. Maybe G-d will call a child to the ministry that you had other plans for. We are at a time that I believe puts us right at the parable on the ten virgins. I travel allot and teach a series on "Israel, islam and the anti-Christ, and I always end with the parable of the ten virgins. Sorry that I miss read, please accept my apology. I came to know the Lord at the age of 15, when I was very deep into the drug culture and even thinking of suicide. When I met Christ, I left my parents and my home, I basically turn my back on them to follow Christ. In a sense, I rejected them, but My mother turned to Christ and my brothers. they are all gone to be with Him and I miss them. (I lost them all within the last 5 years). There are so many things that I have seen lately that I have to pray about, things that in my opinion should never be part of the ministry, but this is G-d's business and I will leave that to Him. It just seems that its all about money? I have nothing against a ministry being prosperous,but that is not the message of the gospel of Chrsit?
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/29/2008 9:44:15 PM
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LBolt
Posts: 999
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
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Amen!
I think what he is trying to say, and he can correct me if I'm wrong, in the instance of him leaving his family's church, which he discerns is teaching falsehoods, for the sake of his love for God and His word, he would much rather leave and go to a house that is edifying his spirit and not tickle his ears. His decision has cause a rift between his mother and she thinks that Sammy is of the devil and that if he doesn't attend that church, he will be put out of the house. Due to his faith in Christ, he is not going to allow her actions, to cause him to compromise his moral convictions. He does indeed love his family but in comparison to what he perceives is right and in accordance to sound doctrine Sammy not going to be manipulated by familial ties.
To this end, Sammy continue to show the love of God toward your family, forgive them and pray that either A) there be a restoration of sound orthodoxy in that local assembly or B) that God will open their eyes to truth in His own time and go about your business.
Did you have an opportunity to speak with the leadership about your concerns and the rift in your family?
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/29/2008 10:00:49 PM
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DrIjames
Posts: 44
Joined: 11/16/2008
Status: offline
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Amen Brother and thank you for clarifying. that is great. You just seem to be really sincere and that blesses my heart. Keep pressing on Bro. G-d bless you in all that you set out to do
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/29/2008 10:40:32 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 512
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DrIjames
great. I am so glad. I have read his post and Sammy you seem like a person that is serious about your walk in the Lord. It is hard some times to read inflections and meanings when it is just type. I tell my church and use this scripture that there may come a time when you have to give up the dream you had of going camping , to do G-d's work. Maybe G-d will call a child to the ministry that you had other plans for. We are at a time that I believe puts us right at the parable on the ten virgins. I travel allot and teach a series on "Israel, islam and the anti-Christ, and I always end with the parable of the ten virgins. Sorry that I miss read, please accept my apology. I came to know the Lord at the age of 15, when I was very deep into the drug culture and even thinking of suicide. When I met Christ, I left my parents and my home, I basically turn my back on them to follow Christ. In a sense, I rejected them, but My mother turned to Christ and my brothers. they are all gone to be with Him and I miss them. (I lost them all within the last 5 years). There are so many things that I have seen lately that I have to pray about, things that in my opinion should never be part of the ministry, but this is G-d's business and I will leave that to Him. It just seems that its all about money? I have nothing against a ministry being prosperous,but that is not the message of the gospel of Chrsit?
Wow,No Apology needed and I am sorry for what you went through and the lost of your family.And I definately agree with you last point.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/29/2008 10:48:57 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 512
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
Amen!
I think what he is trying to say, and he can correct me if I'm wrong, in the instance of him leaving his family's church, which he discerns is teaching falsehoods, for the sake of his love for God and His word, he would much rather leave and go to a house that is edifying his spirit and not tickle his ears. His decision has cause a rift between his mother and she thinks that Sammy is of the devil and that if he doesn't attend that church, he will be put out of the house. Due to his faith in Christ, he is not going to allow her actions, to cause him to compromise his moral convictions. He does indeed love his family but in comparison to what he perceives is right and in accordance to sound doctrine Sammy not going to be manipulated by familial ties.
To this end, Sammy continue to show the love of God toward your family, forgive them and pray that either A) there be a restoration of sound orthodoxy in that local assembly or B) that God will open their eyes to truth in His own time and go about your business.
Did you have an opportunity to speak with the leadership about your concerns and the rift in your family?
Lol thank you for that,you explained my situation much better than I did/can.As for the question,Do you mean the leaders at my previous church?If so,No.The rift in the family started after I left,I did tell my previous church's Youth pastor(pastor's son) that I disagreed with their teachings and told them that i was leaving.The Pastor and his wife know me and have attempted to contact me but we haven't had the chance to talk yet.I assume that they want to persuade me to go back,and hopefully if we get the chance to talk I can lovingly tell them where i believe they are wrong.
And if you meant the new Church that I am currently attending,yes they know about it but we havent gone in depth about it yet.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/30/2008 6:58:37 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 512
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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My mother called the Pastor of the church to speak to me and they invited me to go speak to them this Saturday.I am planning to write up all i want to say and to ask the Lord to guide me when I go to speak to them.But I am only 21 years old and I am quite frankly very nervous,can you guys please pray that I may go there in Humility and speak the truth boldly?
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/30/2008 7:12:47 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3417
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
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I will not only pray, but the congregation where I attend will pray. It would be a privilege.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/30/2008 8:01:22 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6348
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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Sammy - my wife and I are praying for you.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Leaving a Church - 11/30/2008 9:27:22 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 512
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Sammy - my wife and I are praying for you.
Thank you Earthless I really appreciate it.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Leaving a Church - 12/1/2008 11:42:06 AM
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LBolt
Posts: 999
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
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You are in my prayers as well...This must be something that Yah is doing. Having us attempt to confront issues like this head on. I went to my previous church this past Sunday. Lot of people loved on us. The shepherd there did not acknowledge us at all. He seemed kind of nervous seeing us...Oh well!! I can honestly say my wife and I made attempts to bring closure to some things. The ball is in their court. I will go on with my life, continue to pray for them in love.
I noticed that the altar call and the church membership doors was open and eyes were on my wife and I...praise YAH any how. I love where I am, learning the truth of His word. I have no intentions of returning to that system except to help someone else out.
Be encouraged Sammy_S, be strong, be humble, be sincere, and let you words be seasoned with salt.
Covaan Meshuga, I appreciate you love and prayers and loving correction. I pray that Yah will continue to heal you and make you whole in Yahshua's glorious, matchless Name!!
A great big Cyber-hug  Be strong and of great courage!!!
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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