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RE: Leaving a Church - 12/3/2008 6:10:08 PM
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LBolt
Posts: 999
Joined: 11/30/2007
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You know, I'm finding that my breakthrough came as I prayed for the healing of my previous pastors. Let's not be so quick to judge shepherds as being money hungry, egotistical... There are a lot of deep seated wounds and hurts that need to be healed in their lives. Our forgiveness and prayers could be a powerful key in the hand of Yah to facilitate others even shepherds breakthrough.
It wasn't until Job prayed and forgave for his friends that he got blessed. It very well may have been Stephen prayer to Yahshua of forgiveness that cause Sual to eventually be saved. Let's commit to prayer and intercession for our brethern and not allow our hurts to clog the love of God into others lives.
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Leaving a Church - 12/4/2008 3:25:53 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3417
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
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LBolt --
Thank you for your nice comment to me on your previous post. You are so kind. 
You brought up in your later post that we should pray for the people of the churches we leave. The problem I have is that I see that church as so damaging. There are many very good people who go there, including some of my own relatives by marriage, but there is so much wrong in what is taught there, in cultic ideas, etc. I cannot see the leadership as "brothers," and I see the ones who go there as wounded sheep. It is very difficult to pray for people as brothers when they give every indication of being wolves.
. . . ?
I don't have any answers.
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Leaving a Church - 12/5/2008 1:08:47 AM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 512
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
You are in my prayers as well...This must be something that Yah is doing. Having us attempt to confront issues like this head on. I went to my previous church this past Sunday. Lot of people loved on us. The shepherd there did not acknowledge us at all. He seemed kind of nervous seeing us...Oh well!! I can honestly say my wife and I made attempts to bring closure to some things. The ball is in their court. I will go on with my life, continue to pray for them in love.
I noticed that the altar call and the church membership doors was open and eyes were on my wife and I...praise YAH any how. I love where I am, learning the truth of His word. I have no intentions of returning to that system except to help someone else out.
Be encouraged Sammy_S, be strong, be humble, be sincere, and let you words be seasoned with salt.
Covaan Meshuga, I appreciate you love and prayers and loving correction. I pray that Yah will continue to heal you and make you whole in Yahshua's glorious, matchless Name!!
A great big Cyber-hug  Be strong and of great courage!!!
Thank you LBolt..Thank all those who are praying for me.It will be a tough thing to do but i know the the lord's grace is sufficient.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Leaving a Church - 12/5/2008 9:15:32 AM
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LBolt
Posts: 999
Joined: 11/30/2007
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Hey Covaan,
I'm finding out that Yah uses the forward to test His people whether or not that will obey Him. I think this is Deut 18 or 19...Hey, if all else pray for their salvation and Yah's will to be done but on your end just stay from offense...it is easier said than done but this can only be done through the strenght of Elohim.
I've even pray to Elohim that I don't want to forgive those who wronged me, help me...He then changes my heart and fills me with His love and compassion but I acknowledge it and gave it over to Him. When He says 70x7 in a day...there are times when the thought creeps back up and I have to forgive again! I just want my heart pure and I know you want yours to remain pure as well.
This is what it means when it says that Yah causes all things to work together for the good to them who love Elohim and are called to His purposes. He takes the bad, mixes His good in, and the end result is that it is all good! He'll transform the bad into good!
It like when we partake of the bitter herbs (Hazeret) at Passover mixed with the sweet mixture (haroset)e)...to me it taste better when it's mixed! A transformation takes place! HalleluYah!! That how good are Elohim is!! Yes, what happen was horrible and bad but allow Yah to mix His good in there and I promise you...the Scripture bears this out...you'll be a more effective transformed minister/ ambassador for Him.
Be encouraged my sister!
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Leaving a Church - 12/7/2008 3:20:23 PM
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eaglelady11
Posts: 335
Joined: 7/20/2005
Status: offline
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i am not totally thrilled with my church and am looking for another one. I don't like the music, the sermon relevance and the way it is presented and the length of service. so I am shopping and that's okay. I can't change them, but I can leave and find somewhere else that is more to my liking and style.
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RE: Leaving a Church - 12/7/2008 4:48:17 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3417
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
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Sammy, let us know how things went. Bless you!!!
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Leaving a Church - 12/8/2008 3:16:44 AM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 512
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Sammy, let us know how things went. Bless you!!!
I am sorry I couldn't write about it sooner.I met with the pastor's wife and not the pastor himself because he was away.Unfortunately it was what i expected,I was told that it was the devil at work(That really gets on my nerves).I tried to use scripture to defend what i was saying but I was told that i wasn't interpreting it well and that i needed to get a new bible(That of a so loved "prophet" in the Church,it's somewhat like a study bible I guess).
I was mostly listening instead of talking,I thought that as young as I am it would be better if I did my best to gentle and resist coming off too strong.But as I said,I did my best to defend what I believed when i got the chance.
My mom(was there as well) without my permission basically told her that i would be going back to church.I am not going back,I went to a church today and i almost cried because I was finally at peace in a church.
I got a call from the Pastor's wife again but I missed the call so hopefully I can call her tomorrow and by God's grace simply let her know that if we disagree then I can't possibly go back.It's sad to me because i really do care for her,but i can't go back and i am hoping that they will accept that.
My mom seems to have accepted that I have no intention of agreeing with the WOF doctrine and going back to church and it also seems like she may not kick me out.
Thank you for all your prayers!I have been filled with great peace and Joy in Christ the past week and May God continue to bless you all.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Leaving a Church - 12/8/2008 9:16:17 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6348
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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Sammy - thank you for sharing, God bless you and continue to give you strength through this.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Leaving a Church - 12/8/2008 2:20:45 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3417
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
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Thank you so much, Sammy. Looking at this as a mother, I would not kick you out either. It would seem to me that if she wanted you to return to that church, that wouldn't be a good move, because she needs to impress you with her patience and kindness. I hope she doesn't kick you out.
It was a privilege to pray for you. I love your sweet spirit.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Leaving a Church - 12/11/2008 7:28:40 AM
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rwe2156
Posts: 2472
Status: offline
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I think we see a combination of "they went out from us because they were not of us"
and "Truth? You can't handle the truth!".
Truth is, most people leave a fellowship because they are not satisfied
with they church - they way money is handled, the music, or certain
unresolved personal conflicts with the leadership.
Yes, someone could be completely justified in leaving a congregation,
but this should be a rare event.
There's alot of "church hoppers" who are all about personal preferences.
Then there is the whole spiritual authority thing.
And church discipline? ...............forget it!
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
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RE: Leaving a Church - 12/11/2008 8:08:00 AM
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rwe2156
Posts: 2472
Status: offline
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Hobbs, and RC:
Where is the true church, brothers?
You know, the church does does NOT have a 50% divorce rate,
the church where parents disciple their children?
where the "Youth Group" isn't a mirror image of their lost peers?
where people are hungry for the word and attendance on Sunday
and Wednesday night isn't less than 20% what it is on Sunday AM?
the church where more than 37% of the "membership" are
in attendance on Sunday morning?
the church where members who are out of spiritual control
are subject to loving admonition and discipline, if needed?
the church where the sanctuary of our Lord is honored
and Christmas trees are not displayed on the altar and
the baptistry isn't covered over for a manger scene?
the church where people are eager to serve?
where a Sunday School teacher doesn't feel he
needs to either beg people to come or bribe them?
where the preaching isn't a pep talk or motivational speech?
where pastors are more interested in souls than salaries?
where people bring their worship with them?
where the brethren truly - TRULY - love each other?
where preachers and people have a love for doctrine?
YES, I know there are sinners in the church, lost people on
the membership roles, people in all phases of their
spiritual life - I am talking generalities - the generic "church".
YES, I now I sound like a legalist to some - but where is
our holiness, our sanctification? Are we not predestined
to something besides eternal life?
Where is that church, my pastor brothers?
I WANT TO BE IN THAT CHURCH!!
I am beginning to really wonder if Harold Camping isn't right -
The Church Age is over and it is up to each individual Christian to disciple himself.
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
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RE: Leaving a Church - 12/11/2008 3:46:10 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3417
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rwe2156
I think we see a combination of "they went out from us because they were not of us"
and "Truth? You can't handle the truth!".
Truth is, most people leave a fellowship because they are not satisfied
with they church - they way money is handled, the music, or certain
unresolved personal conflicts with the leadership.
Yes, someone could be completely justified in leaving a congregation,
but this should be a rare event.
You said that "most people leave a fellowship because they are not satisfied with they church." Right. But is this a condemnation of their leaving? Some churches need -- NEED! -- to be emptied.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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