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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/30/2008 5:47:08 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DrIjames
. Wel, there are times that she comes in and you can literally see the Glory of G-d on her it surronds her like a fog. The pressence of G-d is so thick you can almost cut it. This is how I can see and feel the Spirit of G-d, this is also the kind of church tah I look for. A church where G-d is there and you know it beyond all doubt.
Wow. Is God MORE present in certain places than others?
Is there a Church where God isn't?
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love.ben
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/30/2008 6:06:07 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1884
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From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
Wow. Is God MORE present in certain places than others?
Sometimes, He's omni-and-then-some-present.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/30/2008 7:28:42 PM
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earthless
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I believe he was being sarcastic about those that claim God is only present in certain groups of born-again believers...
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 11/30/2008 10:09:12 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1884
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From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
I believe he was being sarcastic about those that claim God is only present in certain groups of born-again believers...
I was indeed. Sorry for the confusion.
I find the notion that God loves or works through some of His children less than others to be unbiblical. If anything, God is more present in the less "alive" churches, to coax them in to greater service.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 12/1/2008 5:32:56 AM
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TheosCentric
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
quote:
ORIGINAL: DrIjames
G-d still heals in the services held by henn.
How do you know it is God healing? This is an honest question, because I do not know how to tell myself. Hinn does not preach the gospel I know, so I question if anything involved with him is of God. Jesus tells us that "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect" So we know that merely performing miracles is no proof that God is the one doing them.
As to this thread in general, how do WOF respond to this passage:
Proverbs 30:8-9
Keep falsehood and lies far from me; give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread.
9 Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you and say, 'Who is the LORD ?' Or I may become poor and steal, and so dishonor the name of my God.
Do WOF teachers ever preach about the dangers of being too rich? They talk a lot about abundance, but I've never heard of them warning about the wealth of this world drawing us away from God. Would anyone care to provide a sermon transcript or a video clip showing a WOF teacher talking about the dangers of loving money?
Also, while I was on vacation I realized there are a lot of "negative confessions" in the NT. I'm planning on trying to find good examples of when NT writers (or even Jesus Himself) have said that something is happening, or that it will happen. I figured the OT would be way to easy to do that with, especially the Psalms and Lamentations, but I doubt I'll have any lack of quotes to find in the NT.
Hi FigmentPez,
I understand what you are saying here, and I cant argue the points that you have made here, one because I have NEVER been to one of Benny Hinn's crusades or to see him period......I have seen him on tv, and I have questioned some things, thats for sure....but I stop there and leave that up to God to decide, and Im not making that remark toward you in any disrespect, so please do not take it that way, thats just me.
Anyway, the reason Im writing here, is because I do like your post, and brings out a lot of important points and things to consider. But my question is about John Hagee, he is from Texas, and he does warn about the things you have mentioned here, and he does it alot.....have you ever heard him or seen him? Is he consider a WOF? Im just curious. Because he does teach alot about faith and healing, but he also warns about the things you have mentioned here.
I guess Im just wondering, how does a person know if they are a WOF, and are they all wrong? And i know we should test all by the Word of God, thats for sure.
John Hagee is semi-Charismatic, from what I can tell, but not WOF, afaik.
That being said, I believe Hagee is a heretic, but that's for another thread.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 12/3/2008 2:56:52 PM
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figmentPez
Posts: 2120
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From: TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
I guess Im just wondering, how does a person know if they are a WOF, and are they all wrong? And i know we should test all by the Word of God, thats for sure.
My understanding of the core beliefs of WOF teaching are, roughly, as follows (if anyone thinks I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me)
1. "Faith" is a power that is put into action by "faith filled words". "Faith" is the source of all power, including God's, and even He is bound by the laws of how "faith" works.
2. Everyone can make things happen by speaking words with enough "faith". God created everything by His "faith". Christians can make good things (or bad things) happen to themselves by "faith". Even pagans like witches work by "faith", as witchcraft is just "faith filled words" in action.
3. Healing, prosperity and more can be had by Christians, immediately and always, when they speak words with enough "faith" behind them. Similarly, sickness, poverty and more will, immediately and always, be caused by any "negative confessions" spoken by anyone, even in jest.
4. Sickness is caused by sin, lack of "faith" and/or negative confessions, but always by the devil/demons as a result of the former.
5. Prayer that "God's will be done" is a lack of "faith", as all Christians should know what God's will is, especially with regards to healing, prosperity and other positive things that are always God's will for the here and now.
6. Positive confessions must always be made, even when they don't appear to be true. Saying that someone's leg is broken is a "negative confession" that lacks "faith" and instead a WOF believer should say that "God has already healed their leg" if they want the leg to be healed.
7. Words are so powerful that even God's plans can be thwarted by a human speaking words with enough "faith". The evidence given for this is Luke 1:5-25 where Zechariah is made mute because He didn't believe God's messenger. WOF says that if Zechariah had been allowed to speak, his words would have kept God's plan from happening.
That's all I can remember right now. If anyone wants proof of how all of these concepts are contrary to the teachings of scripture, I'm sure there are any number of posters in this thread (myself included) who would be glad to provide proof.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 12/3/2008 3:06:56 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 470
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: online
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figmentPez,
I think you are pretty spot on.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 12/3/2008 4:38:04 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6348
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Great post Figment - I would also add that WoF teaches that Jesus Christ did not atone for sin on the cross. And many of its leaders teach that unless you believe Jesus had to atone for sin in Hell, being tormented by Satan and the demonic for 3 days... and that Jesus had to speak "words of faith" to become the first born-again man.. than they teach that you are not saved.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Word of Faith / Prosperity - One Stop Thread - 12/3/2008 5:36:30 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6348
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Joel Osteen, T.D. Jakes, Paula White, Kenneth Copeland and others also preach the same thing.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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